At 09:11 p.m. 24/10/2005, you wrote:
>Ok... Both telecom and Orcon have a minimum sign up period of 4-6
>months. If I disconnect before this period (which I would be forced to
>do ). I inccur a disconnect fee, of around 50$.

Since Telecom is the one forcing you to change they have no right to try to get you to pay the disconnect fee. Steve has had success convincing Telecom of this, if necessary follow his route and go to the CC. In theory Orcon isn't really at fault here. Nevertheless, since Orcon isn't able to offer you what you signed up for, I highly doubt they will be able to force you to pay the disconnect fee. I'm not an expert, perhaps ask Orcon or the CC or the Consumers Institute. Still you could just stay with Orcon and avoid the hassle.

>Extra Costs.
>
>1: 2Mbit (2048kbit) Download / 128kbit Upload (Home) : Orcon |49.95 INC
>Gst for 1 GB of Traf. (most similar plan to the one currently on)

As I've mentioned before, if you can have your tolls with Orcon, you pay $10 less. You don't seem to have mentioned this, does this mean it's not an option or you didn't notice this?

>Now add another $20 as we are generally using around 12 GB of
>traffic(the orcon way of doing taffic now) a month. Total is a minimum
>69.95

Well if you could cut your traffic down to 11GB, you'll save $10. Also, when you say you usually use around 12 GB, what is your current plan? I was under the impression Telecom only offered 10 GB following which you'll either be 64k capped or pay a ridiculous amount. Are they still taking forever to cap people or something?

BTW, there are other ISPs which for example offer $0.01c /MB (basically the same as Orcon overall but you don't have to pay $10 for every part of 10GB you use) along with the Ihug option I mentioned (although you need to have tolls with them) although I agree it might be to great a hassle to change ISP a month before you move (although I believe you've had quite a lot of time to sort this out if you acted sooner!).

>Factor the upstream is less, and right there you have a more expensive
>option that I'm currently at a degradation in upstream. Telecom works
>out even more expensive.

 You keep telling us your limited to 128k upstream. As I mentioned, if your limited to 128k, who cares whether you supposed to be 192k or not? You only have 128k so I don't see what's the difference between a 2mbit/128k $69.95 (if you don't move your tolls to Orcon) and a 2mbit/128k $69.95 connection which is supposed to be 192k according to you but is not?

>If I stick with Orcon I get a New IP, (as discussed) while the range I
>am on at the moment is an orcon range, it is part of the fastIP network,
>and so moving to ubs would mean a new IP, regardless of it being static
>this means I have to switch stuff over for a month regardless of it
>being static.

Well yes but you still get a static IP. You were implying you'll have to live with a dynamic IP which you don't. A bit of a hassle I agree. But although I'm not a IT or network engineer, I would say if a single IP change on a home server setup is likely to cause you more then a hour or two of lost time you need to relook into your configs.

>Ok maybe you don't but this has had real world implications. (Namely
>people not signing up for research sessions because of long wait times
>on pages on my server, i've seen it, happens it's not just
>hypothetical). This is exactly the attitude I was talking about. I don't
>actually care too much at the moment, but the fact you say somthing
>stupid like this demonstrates that there are people out there who think
>it's ok to go ahead and change stuff without thinking about the
>consequences. Then they get all defensive when someone like me get's up
>in arms over the fact that they have had it changes without any
>notification! I mean common what do you expect?

News for you. I did not decide to end JPP. I did not decide to end 192k upstream. I did not decide any of these things. IMHO, they were stupid decisions. The 128k decision was even more stupid.

Nor am I the one responsible for informing people they're going to get changed from 192k to 128k (I wasn't even informed when the decision was made). I do not work for Telecom, or Orcon or any ISP, I happen to be a student like you. But this against the point. We did not make any of these decisions, moaning to us is not going to help. Many of us are equally pissed off about the state of NZ broadband at the moment and the actions of numerous parties. If you really want to moan, try Helen, or David or Theresa or the CC, or the newspapers or whatever.

We can only offer advise and help. We can't bring world peace or reverse the decision to end JPP or bring back 192k, believe me.

You also seem to be missing my point. If you don't have 192k upstream, why exactly do you keep talking as if you do have 192k upstream? You don't have it, end of story. It doesn't matter whether your supposed to. I don't think people are able to access you server faster because your supposed to have 192k. In a little over months time, you won't even be supposed to have 192k upstream. If you feel that you have been misled by Telecom then as I've said, take this to the appropriate people. Also, I think I said this quite a while back, I would morally support you on this. Ask for compensation. Whatever. Acting as if you still have 192k when you however don't doesn't help...

>Actually I contest this. As above, the current UBS offers tend to work
>out worse for those people who were on the first round of stripped down
>JPP plans. Also due to Orcon (and other ISPS) not peering at the WIX in
>wellington, there is only ONE NZ isp that offers free national traffic,
>Which is maxnet. Given 50%+ of my traffic is to local WIX mirrors the
>UBS offers are less than appetising.
>
>Okay I realise that peering at the WIX for an auckland ISP means having
>some sort of presence here, but it would be great for a number of other
>reasons.

Er since when did Telecom/Jestream/JPP ever offer free national traffic? I'm even more confused. Are you on some mystical plan that offers 2mbit/192k (which is only 2mbit/128k now) with 12gb and free national traffic? I wasn't aware Telecom offered such a thing.

I'm pretty sure Telecom has never offered a Jetstream plan with free national traffic (Jetstarter was not Jetstream and Xtra didn't offer free national on Jetstarter) and I'm also pretty sure Telecom has never offered a capped rate plan with more then 10gb. At least not since circa 2002 when I came on to the scene.

If anyone still has 192k up then perhaps they will lose if they move to UBS. But since it appears most people with 192k have been downgraded to 128k up and there have been suggestions this is Telecom's official decision then I suspect this is not many people. The rest would possibly be able to save money or at the worst, will be paying the same amount as their current plan. Again I still think this mess is silly but I don't really get what's the mystical advantage offered by JPP that no other plan can match.

BTW, why not MaxNet UBS? Also again your ignored the fact I pointed out that some ISPs such as Ihug offer free upstream and since you seem to have a lot of upstream traffic, this might be an advantage.

Of course the service quality, tech support etc may be worse, I can't comment on this.

>Yup, at the moment, I am happy about this. And yes I have a LOG of EVERY
>discussion I have had with both telecom and orcon dating back to late
>august. Orcon appears to be coming out cleaner than originally thought,
>and Telecom either through incompetency or deliberate misdirection
>worse. I do however still believe Orcon has been at fault for the silly
>disconnections, and I don't believe that's on. Regardless of any other
>circumstances, it's comparable to a small child taking the toys away
>from another child when they are not looking so they will play with
>them.

Wait a minute, you've had since August to do something about it? Do you think it would have been easier just to move to Orcon paying the same price you are now for the same connection speed and the same amount of data? Giving you amble time to sort out everything including the IP change. Or perhaps even move to a different ISP? Or did you really have 192k back then? If so, I can understand, for once...

I also don't get your analogy. An Orcon representative has explained why they have carried out such a move. Orcon isn't trying to play with your toys or you connection when your not looking. They're trying to make sure you and everyone else still using JPP know your going to be disconnected at the end of the month so they don't get hundreds of phone calls on 1 November saying WTF, the internet just stopped going. I'm not saying it's was a a good move but your analogy doesn't fit. In you specific case, their desires doesn't apply since you're supposed to keep your connection. However, there is probably no easy way they can single you out to be left alone.

P.S. Simon, I would guess it was 240kbps for 192k not 320kbps which is usually for 256k (e.g. my current download). Also, if anyone is interested in the calculations, I think I posted them a while back...

-- 
To unsubscribe: send mail to <majordomo@lists.unixathome.org> 
with "unsubscribe adsl-chat" in the body of the message